MICHIGAN CHAPTER
Women Against Gun Control
An Interview with Nancy Herrington & Janalee Tobias
by Carlo Stagnaro
According to liberals, women require special protection by the government, so as to secure their right not to be discriminated against. Of course, this implies women are currently discriminated against by men and are unable to get others to respect their rights. But this liberal view of the "helpless little woman" sounds a bit patronizingly sexist, doesn't it?
By contrast, if one thinks women have the same rights and the same responsibilities as men, one must recognize their right to self defense. After all, it would be nonsense to advocate equal opportunity while forcing women to give up the only chance they have to protect themselves from aggression.
National press reports, however, usually present women as against gun self-defense. They fear firearms and, according to most journalists and politicians, would like a complete gun ban. Well, this is not true for a lot of women whom the mainstream media never mention. For example, there is in America an organization named Women Against Gun Control (http://www.wagc.com) which defends the Second Amendment of the US Constitutions and the right to keep and bear arms.
In order to understand their views, we addressed several questions to Janalee Tobias, WAGC President, and Nancy Herrington, WAGC EVP.
Most surveys show women usually have anti-gun sentiments. In your opinion, why?
Nancy: Mainly because they only poll anti self defense women. I, and I bet the rest of the WAGC members, have never been asked. Polls can be manipulated to say what the polltaker wants the end result to be. The women who do have anti-self defense ideas are those who have never been around firearms. Women, as well as men, who have never been around firearms and/or used one have no knowledge of them, thus they fear them.
As the saying goes: We fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them.—Livy
These are the women whose only source of information is the mainstream news media, which tends to be vary biased against firearms and firearm owners. For example , you can be sure to read about every single misuse of firearm, but it is very rare that stories of law abiding gun owners using firearms in self-defense are ever heard/read.
Janalee: Because we as women like to look for women role models. We have women who are in very powerful leadership positions (i.e.: Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Rosie O'Donell, Barbara Streisand) being seen by many women as these role models. These women with very high positions in politics, entertainment and business are those women who are so outspoken about guns causing crime and that if we banned guns crime would disappear. These women are misleading other women to believe the way that they believe. They are being very hypocritical in that all of these women have bodyguards with guns and if they do not, I am willing to bet that they have guns in their underwear drawer or underneath their beds. I think these women may be well intentioned, but it is highly irresponsible for them to send these kinds of messages to criminals that women are not going to have a means to protect themselves.
Another way that these women are being hypocritical is that these same women who say we should not have guns in our homes because they might be used against us are the very same women who are very outspoken about equal rights for women. They want women to be able to go to war and handle machine guns and grenades to defend their country, but they can't even have a handgun in their homes to protect the most important treasures anybody has… their families… from people who want to harm us.
The Second Amendment is our Equal Rights Amendment!
Guns really do make us equal. Guns really do make women equal to men. Not all women believe the way they do. Women need to be taught that.
That's why WAGC is out there speaking to help women realize that not all women support gun control. We do not want to be victims; therefore, the message we send to criminals is that we are willing and able to stand up and defend ourselves. That's why we are out there volunteering our time. We're really the ones that want to save the children. The Misguided Moms claim they want to save the children, but they have no idea how to go about saving their children. Their laws do not work!
Some months ago, a "million" (in the reality, a few thousand) moms marched against guns - and they are supposed to have marched against the Second Amendment too. They stated guns are a dangerous tool that could be owned by the bad guys. Do you share these statements?
Nancy: This was done on Mother's Day 2000. There was also a counter march put on that same day by Second Amendment Sisters, WAGC's Allies. It was known as SAS-AIM - Second Amendment Sisters - Armed Informed Mothers counter rally. This was attended by Janalee and Myself as well as other WAGC members and over 5000 other pro Second Amendment Americans. Janalee was one of the many speakers at the SAS-AIMM counter rally. Does WAGC deny that "bad guys" can get guns? No. They will get guns regardless of how strict gun laws get. They will commit crimes until they are held responsible for their own actions. Knives are dangerous tools that can be owned by bad guys. So are baseball bats, automobiles, picks, and shovels! Yes, Guns are tools and in the hands of law abiding citizens they have been used to save lives and deter crime over 2 million times a year.
WAGC abhors all violence, including baseball bats, knives, automobiles, shovels, pitchforks, and even hands and feet. WAGC blames the individual who commits these acts of violence regardless of the tool used in commission of the act.
Do we deny that these gun control laws (or as they are calling them now — so-called gun "safety" laws which the misinformed mommies endorse) will keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Absolutely! What the MMM'ers don't seem to realize is that prohibition does not work. It did not work on Alcohol; it's not working on drugs and it will not work on firearms. Prohibition creates criminals out of law-abiding citizens, period! Guns are tools just like knives, baseball bats, bricks, shovels, and even hands and feet. If somehow all firearms could be magically removed from this planet, there would still be crime and violence. As long as there are those who insist on blaming lifeless inanimate tools, instead of holding individuals responsible for their actions.
"Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est" ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands") —Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC - 65 AD)
The next two quotes are in reference to Rosie O'Donell, a talk show host and spokesperson for the MMM'er's, who made the statement that (paraphrasing) all gunowners need to be in jail and then says her son needs an armed body guard to take him to school.
"The biggest hypocrites on gun control are those who live in upscale developments with armed security guards — and who want to keep other people from having guns to defend themselves. But what about lower-income people living in high-crime, inner city neighborhoods? Should such people be kept unarmed and helpless, so that limousine liberals can 'make a statement' by adding to the thousands of gun laws already on the books?" —Thomas Sowell
"These liberties, ensured by our Bill Of Rights, were properly recognized by our Founders as divine in origin, transcendent in nature, and beyond the political manipulations of beings even so powerful as talk show hostesses." —Rep. J.C. Watts Jr.
"Gun control has always been an elitist method of controlling the common folk. Nevertheless, if the urban insane wish to be prey for predators, that's their privilege. But no one has the right to tell someone else that he or she cannot possess the tools necessary to defend his or her life and the lives of loved ones." —Charley Reese
Janalee: Absolutely not. They make absolutely no sense. I don't know what they were smoking before they went to that march but they obviously have no concept that Criminals do not obey laws. If guns are a dangerous tool owned by the bad guys and they pass these laws, guess who obeys them? The good guys! The good guys obey the laws and the bad guys do not. So if guns are dangerous tools owned by the bad guys, then how are the good guys supposed to protect themselves? So yeah, If the bad guys have guns, then the good guys need them to protect themselves. It is just that simple!
Assume you are a mother. Wouldn't you feel more calm, knowing that your child cannot get a gun?
Nancy: If a child is raised with morals and respect than there's nothing to fear. If a child is raised with the knowledge of guns and what they are capable of doing , there is nothing to fear. If a child is raised knowing about gun safety and responsibility, there's nothing to fear.
I've got a 7 yr old nephew who since the age of 2 has been able to recite gun safety rules, the number one rule being do not touch Daddy's guns unless Daddy is there. He is being raised with the understanding of respect, morals, and responsibility. If all parents would do this with their children, there would be nothing to fear. Children tend to be curious. Take the curiosity out of firearms by teaching them about firearms and firearms safety. Education is the answer! Children also tend to do what they are told not to do.
"When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes — remembering that it was one of the best parts of my education — make them hunters." —Henry David Thoreau
There have been cases where it was the child who saved a parent from an attacker. "Son Shoots Dad's Attacker": http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112500/met_4711071.html
There was also an incident in California (a state with strict gun control laws — ie: all guns must be unloaded and locked away from children) where a pitchfork welding home intruder killed several siblings of a young lady who could have saved their lives had she been able to get to a self defense weapon. About 2900 children died in motor vehicle accidents, 950 children lost their lives from drowning and over 1000 children were killed by fire and burns. More children die in bicycle accidents each year than die from all type of firearms accidents. Why don't we hear these anti-Second Amendment folks screaming about these children's death and advocating restrictions on these lifeless inanimate objects. Why are they blaming just firearms? Are these children's deaths not as tragic? Are these children not as important? We teach children safety using these items, why not educate them on firearms?
Janalee: I don't know the gun safety they teach their kids, but law-abiding gun owners are very careful when they store their guns. They do not leave them out for kids to get. So yeah, it's a concern that kids get guns—that's why before becoming a member of WAGC, there is a pledge to take. One of the prerequisites is that you must promise to exercise safety and responsibility in the handling of firearms and that includes keeping firearms out of the reach of young children.when they are not under adult supervision. It's the parents' responsibility to keep harmful things out of the reach of small children. It's also the parents responsibility to teach their children gun safety, what to do if they see a gun. We teach them bicycle safety, why not firearm safety. But what I'm concerned about is what to do if someone breaks into my house and they are trying to attack my child. What would you do? Would you rather dial 911 or reach for your 9mm? What's really going to save a child? So the whole key is safety and responsibility in storing firearms and teaching kids what to do when they see a gun. You teach kids about guns, you do not just hide guns from kids and act like they do not exist. We all know what happened in the Garden of Eden when they could eat all the fruit they wanted except the forbidden fruit. The more we make guns a taboo object, the more that kids are going to see what they are like, so we need to teach them about guns, not just hide guns out of sight.
Often, the price of tranquillity is a loss of liberty. Don't you think that the partial loss of the right to keep and bear arms is a good price for a safer world?
Nancy: Do gun laws really make the world safer? Would Criminals disappear if guns disappeared? Would violence stop if guns were no longer a tool to be used by criminals? Would robbers, rapists, thieves, murderers stop just because they don't have a firearm available? To answer those questions one has to only look at the crime stats of the UK, Australia, and Canada. Stats show that crime is still there..... Stats show that there is an increase in the number of victims, because they are now unarmed and unable to defend themselves. http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/breakingnews/UK/0,2478,665043,00.html
Yet in Switzerland, where there is a firearm in every home, crime rates are low. In the USA compare the towns/states that have more gun control vs less gun control. John Lott, http://www.tsra.com/LottPage.htm, is a senior research scholar at the Yale University Law School, who started out doing research to prove his antigun beliefs that guns caused violence. What he found, was the complete opposite. In his book, More Guns, Less Crime, he shows that firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens do indeed deter crime and stop violence. Washington DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the USA. Handguns are banned in Washington DC, yet it has the highest crime rate around. Vermont has the most lenient gun laws in the USA, and its crime rates are lowest. Compare the stats of Morton Grove, Ill. which has banned handguns in the city limits to those of Kennesaw, Georgia which has a city ordinance that states that all heads of households must own and know how to use a firearm. Kennesaw has had one crime committed in the years since that ordinance was enacted and that was with a knife!
If you were a criminal intent on doing your "job", which city would you prefer? As Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who choose safety over liberty, neither deserve nor get either."
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."—Thomas Jefferson (1764)
And here is another good quote: "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional right."—Arkansas Supreme Court (1878)
In other words: Murder, rape, burglary, theft, etc. are already illegal. Enforce those laws! There are all ready laws which will keep firearms out of "the wrong hands". Enforce those laws! Punish the individual who commits the act of violence and leave the law abiding citizens alone.
Janalee: That's an absolute contradiction in terms. Benjamin Franklin stated: Those who give up liberty for security deserve nor get either one. No, again, those anti-self-defense ladies are out of their minds. If you apply that logic to the Second Amendment, then you have to apply that logic to the rest of the amendments. Ok, So there are some bad movies and magazines out there; there are some bad advertisements that aren't that truthful, so you know what? We better start limiting speech as well. I know, we're taking away a little liberties, but to save the children and have tranquility, we have to take away people's rights. It just does not happen! The key is – We have to have morals in our country. We have to teach our kids respect, honesty, patriotism, cleanliness, integrity, and all these principles which are necessary for freedom. That's what we need to be teaching!
Among the slogans of your organizations, one says: "If women are disarmed, a rapist will never hear, 'Stop or I'll shoot!' " This is true. But don't you think that an armed woman could shoot an innocent guy, only because she was thinking he's a would-be rapist?
Nancy: First of all, statistics prove that the police shoot more innocent people than armed citizens. From More Guns, Less Crime by Dr. John Lott Jr., in the United States during a year, only about 30 people are accidentally killed by private citizens who mistakenly believe the victim to be an intruder. By comparison police kill as many as 330 innocent individuals annually. (See chapter 1 page 1 Footnote #5: Gary Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, Hawthorne, NY: Aldine de Gryyter Publishers, 1991.)
Second, WAGC members (women) aren't stupid. It's kind of hard to mistake a would-be rapist. If a guy is coming at you making threatening gestures or saying threatening things, he's not approaching you for a friendly chat. If someone kicks in your door, he's probably not there for a friendly visit. WAGC advocates that women get training in firearm safety and learn the laws re: firearms and self- defense where they reside. Third, the majority of guns used in self defense never even have to be fired. In most cases , firearms are shown and the intruder turns and runs or they are held there until police can arrive.
"More than 90 percent of all uses of guns in self-defense do not involve actually firing the weapon, despite gun control advocates' assumption that we are all such trigger-happy idiots that letting ordinary citizens have guns will lead to bullets flying hither and yon. Like virtually every other liberal crusade, gun control is based on the assumption that other people lack common sense and must be controlled by the superior wisdom and virtue of the anointed." —Thomas Sowell
"The most dangerous action a woman can take when faced with a criminal is to resist with her fists: That tends to annoy violent criminals. But a woman who take the advice of Handgun Control Inc. and passively submits is 2.5 times MORE likely to be injured than a woman who resists with a gun. So if you don't want to lie back and enjoy it, get a gun." —Columnist Ann Coulter, Universal Press Syndicate, 5/15/00
Other links to Newspaper Accounts of Self-Defense with a Firearm include:
KeepandBearArms.com: Gun's Save Lives - Online news accounts of defensive gun use. http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43
Packing.org: Defensive Success Stories - Another source of online news reports of firearms self- defense. http://www.packing.org/news/story_type/?story_type=13
The National Rifle Association, in its "Armed Citizen" column, which appears monthly in its American Rifleman and American Hunter magazines, publishes excerpts of self-defense accounts with a firearm from newspapers across the country.
The Armed Citizen - The current month's column. http://www.nrahq.org/administration/publications/ac/
The Armed Citizen Archive - from 6/99 to present. http://www.alaskareport.com/armedcitizen/index.htm
Janalee: Define "innocent" guy? Is an innocent guy one who just broke into my house? And he's got a knife in his hands and he's telling me to take off off my clothes? Is HE innocent? I guess I want to know what you think of as being innocent? Is it to let my honor, chastity, and virginity and everything I hold more sacred than any amount of rubies could ever buy be taken by some guy that might want to harm me and might somehow be innocent?
I don't understand that. The majority of women out there consider chastity and virtue to be a very sacred honor. There's a story of a woman who lived in China who was about to be raped and didn't want to be, so she jumped out of a nine-story building and broke every bone in her body. She stated that she would rather be shattered jade than intact tile. Now I would have liked for her to have a gun so that she would not have had to jump from a nine story building and break every bone in her body in order to defend everything that she honored and held sacred. She would not have had to spend months in a hospital recuperating. Was THAT guy an innocent guy? Don't think so.
Please, tell us in a few words, why do you oppose gun control?
Nancy: Because: Gun Control is nn-constitutional—or in Europe's view, where there is no Constitutional guarantee from Government infringement—un-human; you see every human being has a right to life, free from persecution. Firearms are the ultimate guarantor of that right! Firearms are tools by which that means is met.
(From Dick Howe) "Your right of self-defense, with the best weapons available, existed before there was any government, as noted and restated in the 2nd amendment."
"The right there specified is that of 'bearing arms for a lawful purpose.' This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it dependent in any manner on that instrument for its existence." Cruikshank 92 US 542 (1876)
Gun Control (in America) is racist! Other sites to visit:
http://www.reedsway.com/roots.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/12/13/85107
Gun Control is DEADLY! Gun control only 'infringes' on law abiding citizens right to self defense by creating unarmed victims thus making the criminals working environment safer!
http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/ray/2001/jan/edrt011501.htm
Gun-free Zones:
Pearl Miss. High School shooter was stopped by the Assistant Principle who was able to retrieve his self defense weapon from his car. How many more lives could have been saved had he had his weapon close and more available? Colorado, Columbine High School shooters had a free reign over the school. All those innocent victims could do was hid under tables and pray that they wouldn't be next.
A Tale of Two Cities:
It's a cautionary tale —or should be — of two cities. In one (Wakefield, Massachusetts), it was the worst of times because only the Bad Guy mass murderer had the guns. But, in the other city (New York), it was the best of times since a Good Guy also had a gun, knew how to use it, and because of this the Bad Guys are dead.
http://www.gunowners.org/op0101.htm
Gun Locks:
Twice it has been proven, by anti-self-defense leaders that trigger locks are deadly!
http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/leaflets/locks.html
Locks are like safety caps on aspirin bottles....... It's been proven that some guns can still be fired with a trigger locks on. These firearms left laying around (being assumed safe because they had trigger lock on them) could be deadly.
Self defense weapons unloaded and locked are useless! There has been more than one incident where a women were raped and killed in their own home while attempting to retrieve/unlock a firearm and retrieve ammo from another location separate of the weapon.
Registration and Licensing First History is full of proof that licensing and registration leads to confiscation and even genocide. (See: http://www.jpfo.org.) This, the MMM'ers claim,will help police find firearms used in crimes. MMM'ers like to compare this with automobile licensing and registration. My question to them is this: If an automobile is stolen and used in a crime, as many are, how will the car being registered and the owner being licensed help the police find out who STOLE the automobile and committed the crime? Now replace automobile with firearm. Same thing.
Gun Laws do NOT work:
a) Brady Law:
Brady Law Needs Repeal, Not Tougher Enforcement
b) "Safe" storage laws
From: http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel.shtml
Not-so Safe-Storage Laws : The only ones "safe" are the intruders.
Janalee: I can answer this one in a few words ;-) The Second Amendment is our basic fundamental human right – everyone has a right to defend themselves – Gun Control does not work. It creates more unarmed victims.
Last question: why should a lady join WAGC?
Nancy: As it says on our webpage, it is the anti-self-defense women who are ultimately going to try/ trying to take away our basic human right to defend ourselves and our family. They have no qualms about using the blood of innocent children to destroy our right to defend our own children. These women use female emotion mixed with anti self defense propaganda to "make the streets safer for us". They want the world to think that all women are anti-self-defense and that we do not have a right to defend our families. WAGC was formed to "shoot holes" in those myths. The Second Amendment is not about guns! It never was, it never will be! It truly means freedom! It's about human rights! It is a basic fundamental human right, so say these precious few words in our Declaration and Preamble, "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are, life, liberty,..." ...and, "...in Order to...establish, Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,...and secure the Blessings of Liberty to...our posterity, do ordain and establish,..." [that], or [therefore] ,... "The right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
HUMAN RIGHTS! HUMAN RIGHTS! HUMAN RIGHTS! It is clearly a right-to-life issue and the right to protect that life! WAGC is emphatically dedicated to the right to life and specifically the right to peacefully and responsibly own and carry the means to protect that life and liberty. Firearms are "tools of defence and deterence" that over 2 million people use every year to deter crime and victimhood. Sarah Brady, Hillary Clinton, Diane Feinstein, Rosie O'Donnell, Barbara Boxer et al are not "anti-gunners" or "gun grabbers". Nope, they are only "anti-human rights extremists" that use "extremist hate group tactics " that ultimately give great aid and comfort to, indeed down right abet those hordes of "criminals and predators, terrorists and tyrants" that will for ever plague our peaceful society . No Firearms, No Freedom! Know Firearms, Know Freedom! Criminals prefer unarmed victims! Gun Control is Victim Disarmament! WAGC... Where we want our children to grow up in a world where they have a right to protect life and liberty!
Janalee: Women are joining WAGC and we're not even advertising. It's by word of mouth and on the Internet.. They are joining because they want to join the thousands of women who are sending a message that not all women support gun control and that there are women who refuse to be victims. That we are independent and have a mind of our own and that the greatest thing about America is that we have the same independent spirit that liberated us from great Britain, that same independent spirit that says I don't want to rely on anybody for protection, I do not have to rely on anybody else but myself for food and my money. I like being independent. I like making my own choices. I like being free and that's what it's all about … owning guns makes us free. America started the great freedom revolution throughout the world and that's the reason we are still free and other nations are free because we included the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. So that corrupt and evil people who might get into power and want control can not until they confiscate our guns.
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Carlo Stagnaro's email address is cstagnaro@libero.it.
